We recently had an Officer leave our guild. Several of us saw the frustrations building over the past few weeks and wondered where it would lead. The other day we saw exactly where that went.
On his way out he left a message for the guild expressing his frustration that many are not prepared for heroics, let alone raids. In his opinion, many are attempting difficult content without regards to abilities, gear, group make-up, buffs, etc. He expressed his frustration at those who unwittingly bring down others by not being prepared and waste the time of those who are geared. One of his complaints was evidently the 10g repairs required before even getting to the first boss in a heroic. As a clothie, this may be a valid concern, but don’t ever make the mistake of complaining about a 10g repair to anyone in plate! Remember, 10g is one daily quest which isn’t a whole lot in the grand scheme of things.
Regardless of how the officer left, which wasn’t shall we say professional, he does have a point. There are many people in casual raiding guilds that aren’t ready. Part of the responsibility rests on the officers’ shoulders and the majority rests on the player.
How do we fix that? The old adage that “knowledge is power” applies. There are so many resources available to us that it’s a crime to not take advantage of what’s available. There are links to so many websites that will assist you in enchanting, gemming, and evaluating your gear, evaluating your talents, or even blog sites such as World of Matticus and Resto 4 Life for healers, Big Bear Butt Blogger for Feral Tanks, and Big Red Kitty for hunters just to name a few. There’s dozens of sites out there and each one of these has links to more. After a while you’ll find what’s useful and what isn’t.
But what do I look at, you might ask? Well here are a few tips:
Talents
In my guild, the officers have noticed that some of the talent builds we’ve seen on our members are what we might consider...odd. Although many of us have little understanding of other classes, there have been a few raised eyebrows from those that do. If you haven’t looked at your talents in a while, visit some sites dedicated to your class to see what’s out there. Just by redoing your talents, you may find that your heals, dps, or tanking abilities will increase dramatically. What worked while you were leveling up is not necessarily going to work as well in raiding. What works in PvP, almost never works as well in PvE, and vice-versa.
Give it a chance. Find something new. Try it out. If it works for you and you’re happy, great run with it! If it doesn’t work out, try something else till you find what does work. Everyone’s play style will be different and the so-called “optimum” builds may not really be that “optimum” for you.
Gear
In every guild I’ve been in, I’ve seen a lot of linking loot that members find on other players they happen to be running past. This can be a great tool for motivating guild members as to what awaits them, but it can also be detrimental when that player focuses on trying to attain that gear without having a plan. I’ve seen players pass on obvious upgrades because they believe that they may as well wait for that piece they’re after, not realizing that the small upgrades get you to the larger ones eventually.
Research your gear upgrades. The WoWArmory has the ability to search for upgrades and this is a useful tool. The only part I don’t like about it is the inability to exclude certain categories, such as Sunwell. There are other websites out there that do allow for this though.
Another great resource is AtlasLoot. If you don’t have this add-on, I recommend you get it now. Hell, I DEMAND that you get it NOW!!!! Best thing in the world is to know what gear could potentially drop so you know what to look for. This speeds up raid times while distributing loot allowing your group to down just “one more” boss before the end of the night. Remember, one more boss is more badges and a couple more pieces of loot that will assist the guild in running it even better next time. (I swear if I have to sit through another 5 min loot distribution routine in Kara again...)
AtlasLoot will also assist you in knowing what badge gear to go after. This add-on has the ability to create a wishlist by holding Alt and clicking on the item. There’s a wishlist button at the bottom. No more will you have to spend several minutes at the badge vendor to search for the item you found the other day and can’t remember how many badges you need.
Heroics/Raids
Know which heroics/raids you are capable of and which you aren’t. Did you know that Slave Pens, Underbog, and Ramparts are considered the easiest heroics? How about Mechanaar being the easiest after that? Did you know that Heroic Magister’s Terrace is the hardest? Did you know that even regular MgT is the equivalent of some of the regular heroics? It’s amazing how few people I run into even realize that the difficulty differences that exist between the regular instances translate even more so in heroics.
Know which heroics/raids require what types of CC and how many you should bring. Karazahn has 3 types of CC that are effective: priests can shackle, hunters can ice-trap, and warlocks can banish the few demons that are present. Knowing something like this can prevent you from making the mistake of bringing Rogues for the sole purpose of CC. I’ve actually participated in the Moroes fight with only one CC because someone wanted to bring their alt in. It wasn’t pleasant.
Pay attention in heroics and raids. You may never know when your knowledge of another class’ responsibilities will come in handy. There are certain mobs in Slave Pens that can’t be sheeped. Know which ones? Ever been in a group that relied on sheeping only to find out too late that it was resisted and you wiped? Personally, my biggest regret was not paying attention to what others needed to do as I now run these instances.
Know the advantages of group make-up. When does it make sense to have more melee than ranged dps? What classes should be grouped together on raids? Want an example courtesy of BRK? Look here for some of the responses.
Point is there’s a lot of different ideas and information out there. Use it.
Know Your Toon
You’ll often see requests from friends and members about whether or not they should switch out certain pieces of gear or what badge gear they should go for. I’ve often been asked by someone looking at badge gear as to whether they should buy A or B first. The issue isn’t so much about which piece as both are generally needed and obvious upgrades. The issue and question is what does your toon need?
Every class/spec has certain stats they need above all else. It’s your responsibility to find out what that is. This information is freely available on websites and from opinions within game. Know which stats are most important and in which order the importance should be placed.
Here’s a major problem I’ve observed in my own guild regarding DPS players. It makes me cringe when hearing about a DPS player wanting to stack crit to get the most damage possible. Why? Because first off, anyone relying solely on crit to deal damage is going to be ineffective and low on the DPS report. First, you have to be able to hit the guy. All your stats should be working towards that and making sure you can’t miss before concentrating on crit. Also, crits are great but only after the tank has gained enough aggro. Someone who tries to get as much crit early on in a fight as they can is asking to die. Dead DPS is NO DPS!! (I'm speaking to you Mr. Mage, who always wants to start casting before the pull so the spell hits instantly after the tank pulls!!! Wiping the party/raid is not the way to increase DPS!) We’ve all heard it, we all know it, but some people get too excited and forget. The DPS player that concentrates on steady damage will out damage the one who focuses on critting, guaranteed! Know where you should be stat wise.
Be Courteous, Be Responsible
The Officers of any good guild, as well as its members should be taking an active interest in helping others and advancing their progress. But it’s often hard for anyone to approach someone and try to give them advice. So for those of you on the receiving end, remember it’s more awkward for someone to approach you than it is for you to hear it.
Please be courteous and learn all you can about your toon. What you know or don’t know affects more than just you. What you do to prepare affects more than just you. Every action you take in a guild has the potential to affect a great many others both positively and negatively. One of the most devastating effects a casual guild faces is attrition. Casual guilds will often attract geared and experienced players looking to potentially lead others or just for a more relaxed raiding atmosphere, but they will often leave if others don’t attempt to improve and make progress. Each one that leaves then makes it that much harder for the guild to stay together.
Be courteous of others and responsible for your place in the guild. When you do that, even casual guilds will thrive.
Continue reading 'Being a Team Player; What You Do Affects Others'
Showing posts with label Party Dynamics. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Party Dynamics. Show all posts
Wednesday, July 30, 2008
Monday, July 21, 2008
Gruul's Lair; What Not To Do In A Raid!; and Forgive & Forget
We attempted Gruul's Lair for the first time last Tuesday and it wasn't great. We were using Teamspeak and unfortunately the person's computer wasn't capable of handling 25 users with success. The result was a garbled mess that very few people could understand.
But the real reason for attempting the raid was to get a feel for where we needed to be. We currently have 59 players in our guild with 97 toons at last count and I think close to 75% of those being level 70. So there's really no reason not to be able to do 25 man raids except that we have had a hard time loggnig the right people in at the same time.
Well, aside from the communication problems, we had ppl not paying attention in raid chat and were filling it up with clutter. We did make it to High King with relative ease, but coordinating 25 people, only about 5 who knew at least one way to approach the fight, became a chaotic mess. But here's WHAT NOT TO DO IN A RAID!
WHAT NOT TO DO IN A RAID!
If you're in a voice chat program with 25 people listening in, make sure when you're in another chat program that the appropriate one is muted before making negative comments.
Perhaps people didn't approach the raid with an attitude that this would be a learning experience. Perhaps they thought it would be free loot. Perhaps they still don't realize how undergeared they are even for Kara. More than likely it's all of these things.
We had one hunter get so frustrated that he evidently was talking to someone in voice chat and started saying "These assholes..." when talking about the two raid leaders not listening to his advice on how to approach the fight. Ironically, he's also one of the most undergeared we had there and although he acted like he had been in there a hundred times, his gear didn't show it. In fact, one officer recalled him mentioning something about running it a lot, but when we finally called the raid the hunter asked "Are we moving on to Gruul?"
Now I don't know how many of you might understand how Gruul's works, but the door to continue is locked until you down High King. So my response was no we can't. His sarcastic comment was "Can't or won't?", to which the other officer responded "Haven't you run this a hundred times?" Anyway, the hunter was then kicked from the guild after the raid by another officer who tried to settle down, but couldn't. Due to the poor voice chat only about half the raid heard what the hunter had said.
Moral of the story: Keep your cool or keep your mouth shut!
Forgive & Forget
The following day the hunter contacts our GM with a story that he was over at a friend's house and while he was in the bathroom his friend began to mess with his game by purposely stating those comments for us to hear. Evidently he's done this before on XBox360 and supposedly his friend and he sound a lot alike.
So we gave him the chance to explain his story to all officers and I spent several minutes listening intently to see if I could tell a difference in voice from what I remembered. There may be a difference, I don't know. Bottom line, we decided to give the guy a chance.
I told him that regardless if his story was true or not, the majority of the guild were not going to believe it, the officers included. I'm one who's generally willing to give someone another chance, in some cases several chances. Everyone says something stupid from time to time that they don't mean. This hunter was going to have to spend some time gaining the trust of the members and officers, but if he was willing to work on it I would vote him back in. We'll see if it was a wise decision
I also mentioned that he may not agree with what the raid leaders were doing, but when it comes to organizing 25 people, everyone has to listen to the appointed leaders regardless of who stupid they think it is or chaos ensues. I explained our purpose that night was to see where we stood and what we needed to do to make things work in the future. It was never about downing High King, though we did think we had a good shot at it. We were short two healers, but given the right make up and gear we could have done it still. There were issues with people listening, which was in part to the voice program, but instructions were issued in raid chat that still weren't followed
This was a learning experience and in general enjoyable for most. (To be honest, I was bored to tears because most of it was sitting around waiting for the raid leaders to decide what to do
Gruul Revisited
On Saturday our GM organized a joint run with another guild that is in much the same boat we are, supposedly in that they don't have enough of the right geared people to run 25 man raids. (I actually want to look into this myself, because quite frankly I think we might be better situated than they. I was told today we were offered an invite to join their guild yesterday. No offense, this pally ain't going anywhere!) They brought half the people and we brought half. Ironically, we brought all the tanks which may be why they have a hard time running stuff
For the first time in a long time, I was not the most geared healer in a raid. That was weird, but man was it a weight off my shoulders! There were two holy pallies from their guild that were more geared than I, as well as a priest. I think in all we brought 4 healers and they brought 4. Anyway, I got assigned to raid heal which was an odd decision in my opinion as a couple of tanks didn't have a pally healer, but who am I to question why
OK, I usually avoid bragging, but screw it! At the end of the night, I had the highest overall healing by a good 200k and even on a couple of the individual boss attempts had the highest. I also was #6 on the overheals and around 30% so I felt real good about that! Not sure how that happens when assigned to raid healing and the tanks are taking the most damage, but it happened
Anyway, we got the loot and one of each class token dropped. Yours truly rolled against one of our rogues to win the Tier 4 shoulders. Everyone from the other guild passed. The other two tokens were also won by members of our guild in addition to the other piece of loot. So we cleaned house. We continued on to Gruul and had asked that some of our members pass on Gruul loot to allow the other guild to get something
Unfortunately after several wipes we gave up when members of the other guild started to leave. We got him down to 25%, 12%, 2%, and 14%. I can't remember the last attempt, but it went up as people got tired. The 2% fight was very disappointing since we had just lost too much dps near the end. Continue reading 'Gruul's Lair; What Not To Do In A Raid!; and Forgive & Forget'
But the real reason for attempting the raid was to get a feel for where we needed to be. We currently have 59 players in our guild with 97 toons at last count and I think close to 75% of those being level 70. So there's really no reason not to be able to do 25 man raids except that we have had a hard time loggnig the right people in at the same time.
Well, aside from the communication problems, we had ppl not paying attention in raid chat and were filling it up with clutter. We did make it to High King with relative ease, but coordinating 25 people, only about 5 who knew at least one way to approach the fight, became a chaotic mess. But here's WHAT NOT TO DO IN A RAID!
WHAT NOT TO DO IN A RAID!
If you're in a voice chat program with 25 people listening in, make sure when you're in another chat program that the appropriate one is muted before making negative comments.
Perhaps people didn't approach the raid with an attitude that this would be a learning experience. Perhaps they thought it would be free loot. Perhaps they still don't realize how undergeared they are even for Kara. More than likely it's all of these things.
We had one hunter get so frustrated that he evidently was talking to someone in voice chat and started saying "These assholes..." when talking about the two raid leaders not listening to his advice on how to approach the fight. Ironically, he's also one of the most undergeared we had there and although he acted like he had been in there a hundred times, his gear didn't show it. In fact, one officer recalled him mentioning something about running it a lot, but when we finally called the raid the hunter asked "Are we moving on to Gruul?"
Now I don't know how many of you might understand how Gruul's works, but the door to continue is locked until you down High King. So my response was no we can't. His sarcastic comment was "Can't or won't?", to which the other officer responded "Haven't you run this a hundred times?" Anyway, the hunter was then kicked from the guild after the raid by another officer who tried to settle down, but couldn't. Due to the poor voice chat only about half the raid heard what the hunter had said.
Moral of the story: Keep your cool or keep your mouth shut!
Forgive & Forget
The following day the hunter contacts our GM with a story that he was over at a friend's house and while he was in the bathroom his friend began to mess with his game by purposely stating those comments for us to hear. Evidently he's done this before on XBox360 and supposedly his friend and he sound a lot alike.
So we gave him the chance to explain his story to all officers and I spent several minutes listening intently to see if I could tell a difference in voice from what I remembered. There may be a difference, I don't know. Bottom line, we decided to give the guy a chance.
I told him that regardless if his story was true or not, the majority of the guild were not going to believe it, the officers included. I'm one who's generally willing to give someone another chance, in some cases several chances. Everyone says something stupid from time to time that they don't mean. This hunter was going to have to spend some time gaining the trust of the members and officers, but if he was willing to work on it I would vote him back in. We'll see if it was a wise decision
I also mentioned that he may not agree with what the raid leaders were doing, but when it comes to organizing 25 people, everyone has to listen to the appointed leaders regardless of who stupid they think it is or chaos ensues. I explained our purpose that night was to see where we stood and what we needed to do to make things work in the future. It was never about downing High King, though we did think we had a good shot at it. We were short two healers, but given the right make up and gear we could have done it still. There were issues with people listening, which was in part to the voice program, but instructions were issued in raid chat that still weren't followed
This was a learning experience and in general enjoyable for most. (To be honest, I was bored to tears because most of it was sitting around waiting for the raid leaders to decide what to do
Gruul Revisited
On Saturday our GM organized a joint run with another guild that is in much the same boat we are, supposedly in that they don't have enough of the right geared people to run 25 man raids. (I actually want to look into this myself, because quite frankly I think we might be better situated than they. I was told today we were offered an invite to join their guild yesterday. No offense, this pally ain't going anywhere!) They brought half the people and we brought half. Ironically, we brought all the tanks which may be why they have a hard time running stuff
For the first time in a long time, I was not the most geared healer in a raid. That was weird, but man was it a weight off my shoulders! There were two holy pallies from their guild that were more geared than I, as well as a priest. I think in all we brought 4 healers and they brought 4. Anyway, I got assigned to raid heal which was an odd decision in my opinion as a couple of tanks didn't have a pally healer, but who am I to question why
OK, I usually avoid bragging, but screw it! At the end of the night, I had the highest overall healing by a good 200k and even on a couple of the individual boss attempts had the highest. I also was #6 on the overheals and around 30% so I felt real good about that! Not sure how that happens when assigned to raid healing and the tanks are taking the most damage, but it happened
Anyway, we got the loot and one of each class token dropped. Yours truly rolled against one of our rogues to win the Tier 4 shoulders. Everyone from the other guild passed. The other two tokens were also won by members of our guild in addition to the other piece of loot. So we cleaned house. We continued on to Gruul and had asked that some of our members pass on Gruul loot to allow the other guild to get something
Unfortunately after several wipes we gave up when members of the other guild started to leave. We got him down to 25%, 12%, 2%, and 14%. I can't remember the last attempt, but it went up as people got tired. The 2% fight was very disappointing since we had just lost too much dps near the end. Continue reading 'Gruul's Lair; What Not To Do In A Raid!; and Forgive & Forget'
Wednesday, April 23, 2008
Constructive Criticism: The Raiding Guild and The Candidate
On March 5th, 2008 I posted a question on Blog Azeroth. The question was:
However, Matticus brought up the same topic today and I felt the need to respond. As I started to think about my response, all this crap started falling out of my head. Well, mom always said I had $#%! for brains. So head on over to Open Discussion: How Do You Improve Players Without Coming out as an Arrogant Jerk? and read Matt’s hypothetical situation, then come on back.
I’d like to address Matt’s questions from two viewpoints: the viewpoint of the raiding guild and the viewpoint of the recruit. Since I’m inspired by Matt’s hypothetical situation, I’ll approach it with the healer in mind, but this can be just as easily applied to any class or spec.
There are several things during the recruiting process that need to be addressed up front from the guild’s perspective:
Know Where You Stand
Make sure that your candidate knows where your guild stands with regards to expectations and that the guild members know the same in return. This is where I see a problem occurs with the average raider.
Raiders wants results and they want results now. They feel that everyone in the group should be at their level or greater. They deserve to be able to down the boss with minimal wiping and frustration. Yet they often forget that they were once in the same boat and more importantly in this case they need that healer to achieve their goals. If they offend the healer, especially without a potential backup, when will they get to go back?
Is it not better to suffer through some frustration hoping to help this new guy out, keep him loyal, and move on? Or is the here and now just so important as to not look to the future? I’m not saying you should have to wait months or even weeks for the person to figure it out. Just set those goals and expectations so all are aware of the time frame. Amazing how much a person can put up with if they see the light at the end of the tunnel.
This is why it is so important to ensure that the guild members understand potential issues with new recruits and that they are on board with assisting in helping and retaining those recruits. It’s for the good of the guild as a whole and that’s often forgotten.
If you have specific gear requirements, make it known up front. If they don’t meet it, but you still believe they’re a prime candidate, give them the support on being able to get whatever they need. Give them a timeframe in which you expect this to be done. Let others know so they can assist in speeding up the process.
Discuss healer smarts with them. Ask them what they would do given certain situations. This one’s difficult, but try to come up with more specific situations than what’s the healing priority? Everyone knows it’s the tank first. Please forgive my example as I only went to Gruul’s for the first time last night in the middle of a raid that lost a healer. Didn’t have a clue as to what I was doing. And no, this isn’t a personal example. I was on the main tank.
As a pally healer, situational awareness is difficult for me. I have to stand still to cast any of my healing spells and my eyes are glued to the health bars of all those around me and in crisis situations it can sometimes be hard to see that AOE that I’m standing in. It’s easy to lose sight of when the tank moves and where I need to be to stay in range. I’m only getting better at this as I learn what damage my fellow raiders are capable of sustaining so I can look away for a time and through repeatedly doing the boss fight over and over. I’m not sure there’s any good way to train someone for this other than through repetition, but make the importance of this known. Suggest watching online videos of the boss fights to help them at least know what goes on and what they need to look for.
Know When to Offer Advice/Criticism
The number one reason I’ve experienced in losing potentially great guild members is criticizing during an actual raid or instance. Its human nature to bring up questions about what happened or who was to blame for that last wipe. DON’T DO IT!! Make sure your raiders are aware that they should keep their collective mouths shut!
Let the leaders handle the situation. Don’t let anyone say “we wiped a second time because THE hunter didn’t re-ice trap the add AGAIN!”, hypothetically speaking of course. (/thinking “Granted we could have killed her the second time.”) Instead let the leader say “We let ice trap break leading to a wipe.” In a statement like this we avoid the accusatory nature of the first statement which singles someone out and instead places the blame collectively on the entire group. Everyone knows who let the ice trap break. Everyone knows who’s at fault. No one needs to point it out. Unless the one responsible is a total tool, they know it too. In a 25 man raid there’s even more anonymity and potentially less embarrassment for that person, if it’s kept general. Just remember this is teamwork. We succeed together, we fail together!
So when do we offer advice/criticism? After the raid, away from others. Nothing boils my blood faster than to be asked during an encounter “What’s your bonus healing at?” At times, it’s been because they were amazed, but more often than not I believe it to be a question regarding my healing abilities and the inability of others to accept any blame for what lead up to that wipe. At these times I have to struggle to remain calm or my decision making becomes impaired.
Know How to Offer Advice/Criticism
Leaders take notes during the raid, talk to the person one on one after the raid. Start off by asking them how they felt about the raid? Don’t ask them what they felt they did wrong. Let them do that on their own. You’ll be amazed at how much more open they’ll be if they have the opportunity to point out what they felt they did wrong before you did. Most people are more critical of themselves than you ever will be. Don’t necessarily disagree with them on their self-criticism, especially if it’s regarding important items. Often people will criticize themselves about trivial matters. This is the tool you’ll use to help them stay on the path to improvement. More importantly, this is when you offer advice. I say advice because at this point it will feel more like advice than criticism.
If you end up with someone that doesn’t point out some of the things they did wrong or shifts all blame to others, then you know you probably have someone you don’t necessarily want to group with anyway as they’ll never be accountable for anything. At this point, it’s entirely up to you on how you want to handle criticizing them and whether you even want to continue the trial period.
Matticus, you also answered your own question as to how to offer advice. Explain the why. During a raid, especially a fast moving one, there’s no time to explain the why. In Common Courtesy: Sleeping with the Dodo I explained a situation in which a Raid Leader didn’t explain the why of a particular situation until those who didn’t listen experienced the why. He pointed it out condescendingly and mockingly earning absolutely no respect from those of us within the group. He expected us to do what he said, when he said, with no explanation.
The problem with the example I gave was no one knew this guy. We had no reason to trust that he was the authoritative figure for Kara that he claimed to be. There was no trust built there yet. Did it matter that he did in fact know what he was talking about? No. He handled it incorrectly. He did have the time to explain before the first pull, just refused to do so. His answer was “Just do it!” He then handled the explanation afterwards unprofessionally.
People are not lemmings. We do not like to blindly follow anyone. Only those we trust will we agree to follow blindly as required, but even then we eventually expect some sort of explanation afterwards. Whether that explanation comes in finding out the hard way or having it explained verbally doesn’t matter. Knowing the why behind something gives us the reassurance that whatever we are doing is not in vain. There is a purpose behind our actions. It is important. We are needed. We fear that which we do not understand. [Edit: I believe this is a quote from someone, but can’t find it on the web.]
With regards to offering advice on specs? I don’t know the answer. Just make sure you know what you are talking about. Being criticized by the mage who doesn’t know how to control his aggro for not being able to keep the raid properly healed because he doesn’t understand the first thing about pally healing only frustrates the paladin and makes the mage look stupid to anybody that does understand. This is why I’m very careful to criticize another for their spec or class and keep my mouth shut. Make sure you know what you are talking about. Granted if that warlock is #8 on the damage meter in Kara, only beating the two healers, in full epic gear and according to Be Imba!report out gears everyone except the main tank and one DPS warrior, AND spec’d Affliction? You might have an obvious problem you can complain about. (*cough, cough. Totally hypothetical, of course.)
With your example Matticus, you stated:
You started out great giving him a sense of worth. You even said that you’re in a tough bind, which conveys the sense that hey I’m getting pressure from above. This helps ease the person from taking it personally. Won’t stop it, but makes it easier. Don’t say “Why should I take you? You’re useless to me.” I read this somewhat as a joke, but I’ve read some of your other Bob posts.
It’s amazing how you can change the tone of a statement and still have the sense of urgency just by altering the way you say something. Say things like “Help me out here. I’ve noticed you’re spec’d x. What if you spec’d y?” By including them on the “improvements” you haven’t dictated to them what to do. They are included and feel their opinion is important. Again, goes back to this trust issue. You can always say “Hey, let’s try it and see if it works better for you. If it doesn’t, I’ll pay the respec costs.” A minor gesture for anyone raiding, but also gives the person a feeling they have an out.
Know When to Cut Your Losses
There are times when you will come across candidates that are the greatest people in the world, people you just love being around, but just aren’t going to cut it based on your guild’s needs and expectations. Knowing when to cut your losses with these people can be very difficult. You don’t want to hurt anyone’s feelings, but you also can’t spend any more time trying to help the guy out. Know when to say when.
You may find that you want to keep them in the guild as a reserve, but make it clear that is what they are there for. However your guild might handle it, deal with it appropriately. Avoid making promises that may never come to fruition.
Regardless of the type of candidate you have, try to end it on as positive a note as possible. You never know when you’ll run into this guy again. Perhaps in the future he’ll end up with a guild that can help him out and eventually he’ll learn what he needs to learn. It’d be a shame to have burned a bridge there. Try to keep the door open for future possibilities, but treat it like a Band-Aid and remove it as quickly and painlessly as possible. Don’t drag it out!
The Recruit
Know Where You Stand
What is it that you’re looking for? Are you looking for a guild that raids on particular nights? Are you looking for a guild to grow with or a guild that’s almost maxed out? Do you want to be helped along? Do you want to be one of those that does the helping? Basically, what’s important for you?
I’ve seen people come and go because they thought they could get a free ride through raids. I’ve seen people come and go because they thought they were so good that they’d outshine all the rest. There are any number of reasons as to why someone joins a new raiding guild. Make it easier on yourself and the recruiting guild by knowing exactly where you stand and where you want to be.
Find out what the goals of the recruiting guild are and see how closely they match up to your own. Be honest with yourself. I’ve had friends join horrible guilds because of the content they could do, only to complain to me and be miserable the entire time. They made their choice. It was more important to go after that upgrade than it was being miserable in a guild they couldn’t have cared less about. There are guilds out there that will match your goals. Be patient.
Know When to Accept Advice/Criticism
This may sound like an odd comment, but this is very important. Hopefully you will not be criticized during a raid or encounter. Hopefully this will be done on the side as time permits elsewhere, so both parties can fully address the issue without having to shorten anything due to time constraints. That said, it is going to happen.
If you are offered advice or criticized during a raid, don’t fight back. You don’t have to accept it, just put it to the side. Take things said during raids with a grain of salt. Emotions could be running high. Things might be said that aren’t thought out and with other information may not have been said or thought at all. Adjust as necessary, but don’t feel you have to blatantly accept all criticism during those heated encounters.
Not accepting the criticism is not the same as fighting back. Push it to the side. Don’t retaliate!
Know How to Accept Advice/Criticism
This is difficult for most people. I can attest that I am one of them. Try to remember one general rule. If you’re being offered advice away from the mob mentality and the raid, you’re probably thought of as being of value. Take it so. If you weren’t worth the time, you’d be brushed off and no one would say anything.
Remember the raiders want you to succeed as much as you do. It doesn’t always sound like it, but it’s true. If you succeed, they succeed. If you fail, they fail.
At times you’ll be accused unfairly, it’s going to happen. Listen to it calmly. If you have a counter argument, present it to the person after they have had the chance to explain their side. If you don’t you’re going to end up in a heated exchange as each side tries to fully explain their side of the argument.
Make sure you present any counter argument by knowing your stuff. Don’t shift blame! Even if it wasn’t entirely your fault, but there was something you could have done better, accept the responsibility for your part. I cannot stress this enough! Nothing aggravates the leader trying to help you faster than you attempting to divert all blame to others, even if it’s later found out you were entirely not at fault. You shift blame and you’ll be labeled as one who never accepts accountability and not a team player. Let the leaders deal with the others. Accept your part and their advice on what to do and move on. The next time when you do your part, it will be painfully obvious that you did all you could and leaders can more fully address the problem elsewhere.
Know When to Cut Your Losses
Knowing when to cut your losses is also tricky from the candidate’s side. There are websites out there dedicated to tracking your movements. Good guilds will know if you’re a guild jumper or not and that’s a label you don’t want following you around. However, there are times when things just do not work out. Guilds may want to keep you, but their goals don’t match yours.
Decide what’s important to you and move on, whether by staying or leaving. Don’t let things drag out thinking they will get better. Do something about it. Talk to your leaders. If they are unresponsive, get out. They obviously aren’t worried about your needs. Only you can determine when you should leave, but always leave on as positive a note as possible. You’ll run across these people again whether in this guild or another. Don’t burn a bridge! There may be millions of accounts out there, but it’s amazing how you keep running into the same people over and over.
Conclusion
Matticus pointed out that without the healers his guild is effectively paralyzed. He is aware of their limitations with respect to gear, specs, and experience. That said it needs to be made perfectly clear to all those involved that there is a huge possibility that they will not succeed over the next couple of weeks and the whining and complaining need to be kept quiet. This is for the good of the guild. Negativity directed towards anyone will only drive people away and healers perhaps more than most. There always seems to be a shortage of healers and even more so of effective healers and we know it. We’re a commodity and we know you need us more than we need you. Terrible attitude to have by the way, healers! I’ve been guilty of it in the past too, but that’s a selfish attitude that causes groups to fall apart.
By taking these healers on you’ve essentially agreed that you know their weaknesses and are willing to work with them to improve. You seem to have two options before you. Do you come on strong risking the possibility of offending them and driving them away only to start all over with someone else in a never-ending cycle? Or do you coddle and reassure them giving them warm and fuzzies so as not to tread on any toes and potentially lose them only to continue down a frustrating and fruitless never-ending cycle of failure? Neither one seems appealing and neither one is the answer. Finding the happy medium is the struggle.
In summary, whether recruiting or being recruited remember to:
Question: How does one go about giving constructive advice to others about their gear, talents, skills, spells, class, or any other aspect of the game? How do you handle giving someone advice who “knows-it-all”?At the time this was a real issue for me and a large concern. I eagerly awaited responses from fellow bloggers, but to this day not one person has responded to that question. Well, I guess I can’t blame anyone. I suppose they don’t know the answer any better than I.
However, Matticus brought up the same topic today and I felt the need to respond. As I started to think about my response, all this crap started falling out of my head. Well, mom always said I had $#%! for brains. So head on over to Open Discussion: How Do You Improve Players Without Coming out as an Arrogant Jerk? and read Matt’s hypothetical situation, then come on back.
I’d like to address Matt’s questions from two viewpoints: the viewpoint of the raiding guild and the viewpoint of the recruit. Since I’m inspired by Matt’s hypothetical situation, I’ll approach it with the healer in mind, but this can be just as easily applied to any class or spec.
There are several things during the recruiting process that need to be addressed up front from the guild’s perspective:
Know where you standThere are several things during the recruiting process that need to be addressed up front from the candidate’s perspective:
Know when to offer advice/criticism
Know how to offer advice/criticism
Know when to cut your losses
Know where you standThe Raiding Guild
Know when to accept advice/criticism
Know how to accept advice/criticism
Know when to cut your losses
Know Where You Stand
Make sure that your candidate knows where your guild stands with regards to expectations and that the guild members know the same in return. This is where I see a problem occurs with the average raider.
Raiders wants results and they want results now. They feel that everyone in the group should be at their level or greater. They deserve to be able to down the boss with minimal wiping and frustration. Yet they often forget that they were once in the same boat and more importantly in this case they need that healer to achieve their goals. If they offend the healer, especially without a potential backup, when will they get to go back?
Is it not better to suffer through some frustration hoping to help this new guy out, keep him loyal, and move on? Or is the here and now just so important as to not look to the future? I’m not saying you should have to wait months or even weeks for the person to figure it out. Just set those goals and expectations so all are aware of the time frame. Amazing how much a person can put up with if they see the light at the end of the tunnel.
This is why it is so important to ensure that the guild members understand potential issues with new recruits and that they are on board with assisting in helping and retaining those recruits. It’s for the good of the guild as a whole and that’s often forgotten.
If you have specific gear requirements, make it known up front. If they don’t meet it, but you still believe they’re a prime candidate, give them the support on being able to get whatever they need. Give them a timeframe in which you expect this to be done. Let others know so they can assist in speeding up the process.
Discuss healer smarts with them. Ask them what they would do given certain situations. This one’s difficult, but try to come up with more specific situations than what’s the healing priority? Everyone knows it’s the tank first. Please forgive my example as I only went to Gruul’s for the first time last night in the middle of a raid that lost a healer. Didn’t have a clue as to what I was doing. And no, this isn’t a personal example. I was on the main tank.
Take for example, having one main tank and two off-tanks at Gruul. You’re assigned to one of the off-tanks and told to assist the main tank should he get low. One healer is assigned to raid heals only and to assist tanks as necessary. You have the mana to spare. Ten raiders are at 50% or less after an AOE attack. Your tank is at 90%, the main tank is at 75%. What do you do?The answers may vary here depending on your own expectations. Is it important that he trust the raid healer to get to those 10 or should he assist? Assist the main tank? Conserve the mana? Spend it? There might not be a right answer, but the way in which the person answers usually gives you an indication of how well they will do. Someone who beats around the bush is indecisive and better to have someone who makes the wrong decision than have someone who can’t make one at all.
As a pally healer, situational awareness is difficult for me. I have to stand still to cast any of my healing spells and my eyes are glued to the health bars of all those around me and in crisis situations it can sometimes be hard to see that AOE that I’m standing in. It’s easy to lose sight of when the tank moves and where I need to be to stay in range. I’m only getting better at this as I learn what damage my fellow raiders are capable of sustaining so I can look away for a time and through repeatedly doing the boss fight over and over. I’m not sure there’s any good way to train someone for this other than through repetition, but make the importance of this known. Suggest watching online videos of the boss fights to help them at least know what goes on and what they need to look for.
Know When to Offer Advice/Criticism
The number one reason I’ve experienced in losing potentially great guild members is criticizing during an actual raid or instance. Its human nature to bring up questions about what happened or who was to blame for that last wipe. DON’T DO IT!! Make sure your raiders are aware that they should keep their collective mouths shut!
Let the leaders handle the situation. Don’t let anyone say “we wiped a second time because THE hunter didn’t re-ice trap the add AGAIN!”, hypothetically speaking of course. (/thinking “Granted we could have killed her the second time.”) Instead let the leader say “We let ice trap break leading to a wipe.” In a statement like this we avoid the accusatory nature of the first statement which singles someone out and instead places the blame collectively on the entire group. Everyone knows who let the ice trap break. Everyone knows who’s at fault. No one needs to point it out. Unless the one responsible is a total tool, they know it too. In a 25 man raid there’s even more anonymity and potentially less embarrassment for that person, if it’s kept general. Just remember this is teamwork. We succeed together, we fail together!
So when do we offer advice/criticism? After the raid, away from others. Nothing boils my blood faster than to be asked during an encounter “What’s your bonus healing at?” At times, it’s been because they were amazed, but more often than not I believe it to be a question regarding my healing abilities and the inability of others to accept any blame for what lead up to that wipe. At these times I have to struggle to remain calm or my decision making becomes impaired.
Know How to Offer Advice/Criticism
Leaders take notes during the raid, talk to the person one on one after the raid. Start off by asking them how they felt about the raid? Don’t ask them what they felt they did wrong. Let them do that on their own. You’ll be amazed at how much more open they’ll be if they have the opportunity to point out what they felt they did wrong before you did. Most people are more critical of themselves than you ever will be. Don’t necessarily disagree with them on their self-criticism, especially if it’s regarding important items. Often people will criticize themselves about trivial matters. This is the tool you’ll use to help them stay on the path to improvement. More importantly, this is when you offer advice. I say advice because at this point it will feel more like advice than criticism.
If you end up with someone that doesn’t point out some of the things they did wrong or shifts all blame to others, then you know you probably have someone you don’t necessarily want to group with anyway as they’ll never be accountable for anything. At this point, it’s entirely up to you on how you want to handle criticizing them and whether you even want to continue the trial period.
Matticus, you also answered your own question as to how to offer advice. Explain the why. During a raid, especially a fast moving one, there’s no time to explain the why. In Common Courtesy: Sleeping with the Dodo I explained a situation in which a Raid Leader didn’t explain the why of a particular situation until those who didn’t listen experienced the why. He pointed it out condescendingly and mockingly earning absolutely no respect from those of us within the group. He expected us to do what he said, when he said, with no explanation.
The problem with the example I gave was no one knew this guy. We had no reason to trust that he was the authoritative figure for Kara that he claimed to be. There was no trust built there yet. Did it matter that he did in fact know what he was talking about? No. He handled it incorrectly. He did have the time to explain before the first pull, just refused to do so. His answer was “Just do it!” He then handled the explanation afterwards unprofessionally.
People are not lemmings. We do not like to blindly follow anyone. Only those we trust will we agree to follow blindly as required, but even then we eventually expect some sort of explanation afterwards. Whether that explanation comes in finding out the hard way or having it explained verbally doesn’t matter. Knowing the why behind something gives us the reassurance that whatever we are doing is not in vain. There is a purpose behind our actions. It is important. We are needed. We fear that which we do not understand. [Edit: I believe this is a quote from someone, but can’t find it on the web.]
With regards to offering advice on specs? I don’t know the answer. Just make sure you know what you are talking about. Being criticized by the mage who doesn’t know how to control his aggro for not being able to keep the raid properly healed because he doesn’t understand the first thing about pally healing only frustrates the paladin and makes the mage look stupid to anybody that does understand. This is why I’m very careful to criticize another for their spec or class and keep my mouth shut. Make sure you know what you are talking about. Granted if that warlock is #8 on the damage meter in Kara, only beating the two healers, in full epic gear and according to Be Imba!report out gears everyone except the main tank and one DPS warrior, AND spec’d Affliction? You might have an obvious problem you can complain about. (*cough, cough. Totally hypothetical, of course.)
With your example Matticus, you stated:
"Bob, you know, you’re an excellent healer. You do what you’re told and heal who you’re asked to heal. You’ve been a tremendous service to the Guild. But I’m in a tough bind here. I can only let in 7 healers at a time and you don’t exactly supply a lot of options for yourself. You’re specced Spirit without the Improved Spirit. You also don’t have Circle of Healing. Why should I take you? You’re useless to me. Give me a reason to take you. I want to take you in, I really do. But when I weigh you against the other potential classes, it looks quite grim."
You started out great giving him a sense of worth. You even said that you’re in a tough bind, which conveys the sense that hey I’m getting pressure from above. This helps ease the person from taking it personally. Won’t stop it, but makes it easier. Don’t say “Why should I take you? You’re useless to me.” I read this somewhat as a joke, but I’ve read some of your other Bob posts.
It’s amazing how you can change the tone of a statement and still have the sense of urgency just by altering the way you say something. Say things like “Help me out here. I’ve noticed you’re spec’d x. What if you spec’d y?” By including them on the “improvements” you haven’t dictated to them what to do. They are included and feel their opinion is important. Again, goes back to this trust issue. You can always say “Hey, let’s try it and see if it works better for you. If it doesn’t, I’ll pay the respec costs.” A minor gesture for anyone raiding, but also gives the person a feeling they have an out.
Know When to Cut Your Losses
There are times when you will come across candidates that are the greatest people in the world, people you just love being around, but just aren’t going to cut it based on your guild’s needs and expectations. Knowing when to cut your losses with these people can be very difficult. You don’t want to hurt anyone’s feelings, but you also can’t spend any more time trying to help the guy out. Know when to say when.
You may find that you want to keep them in the guild as a reserve, but make it clear that is what they are there for. However your guild might handle it, deal with it appropriately. Avoid making promises that may never come to fruition.
Regardless of the type of candidate you have, try to end it on as positive a note as possible. You never know when you’ll run into this guy again. Perhaps in the future he’ll end up with a guild that can help him out and eventually he’ll learn what he needs to learn. It’d be a shame to have burned a bridge there. Try to keep the door open for future possibilities, but treat it like a Band-Aid and remove it as quickly and painlessly as possible. Don’t drag it out!
The Recruit
Know Where You Stand
What is it that you’re looking for? Are you looking for a guild that raids on particular nights? Are you looking for a guild to grow with or a guild that’s almost maxed out? Do you want to be helped along? Do you want to be one of those that does the helping? Basically, what’s important for you?
I’ve seen people come and go because they thought they could get a free ride through raids. I’ve seen people come and go because they thought they were so good that they’d outshine all the rest. There are any number of reasons as to why someone joins a new raiding guild. Make it easier on yourself and the recruiting guild by knowing exactly where you stand and where you want to be.
Find out what the goals of the recruiting guild are and see how closely they match up to your own. Be honest with yourself. I’ve had friends join horrible guilds because of the content they could do, only to complain to me and be miserable the entire time. They made their choice. It was more important to go after that upgrade than it was being miserable in a guild they couldn’t have cared less about. There are guilds out there that will match your goals. Be patient.
Know When to Accept Advice/Criticism
This may sound like an odd comment, but this is very important. Hopefully you will not be criticized during a raid or encounter. Hopefully this will be done on the side as time permits elsewhere, so both parties can fully address the issue without having to shorten anything due to time constraints. That said, it is going to happen.
If you are offered advice or criticized during a raid, don’t fight back. You don’t have to accept it, just put it to the side. Take things said during raids with a grain of salt. Emotions could be running high. Things might be said that aren’t thought out and with other information may not have been said or thought at all. Adjust as necessary, but don’t feel you have to blatantly accept all criticism during those heated encounters.
Not accepting the criticism is not the same as fighting back. Push it to the side. Don’t retaliate!
Know How to Accept Advice/Criticism
This is difficult for most people. I can attest that I am one of them. Try to remember one general rule. If you’re being offered advice away from the mob mentality and the raid, you’re probably thought of as being of value. Take it so. If you weren’t worth the time, you’d be brushed off and no one would say anything.
Remember the raiders want you to succeed as much as you do. It doesn’t always sound like it, but it’s true. If you succeed, they succeed. If you fail, they fail.
At times you’ll be accused unfairly, it’s going to happen. Listen to it calmly. If you have a counter argument, present it to the person after they have had the chance to explain their side. If you don’t you’re going to end up in a heated exchange as each side tries to fully explain their side of the argument.
Make sure you present any counter argument by knowing your stuff. Don’t shift blame! Even if it wasn’t entirely your fault, but there was something you could have done better, accept the responsibility for your part. I cannot stress this enough! Nothing aggravates the leader trying to help you faster than you attempting to divert all blame to others, even if it’s later found out you were entirely not at fault. You shift blame and you’ll be labeled as one who never accepts accountability and not a team player. Let the leaders deal with the others. Accept your part and their advice on what to do and move on. The next time when you do your part, it will be painfully obvious that you did all you could and leaders can more fully address the problem elsewhere.
Know When to Cut Your Losses
Knowing when to cut your losses is also tricky from the candidate’s side. There are websites out there dedicated to tracking your movements. Good guilds will know if you’re a guild jumper or not and that’s a label you don’t want following you around. However, there are times when things just do not work out. Guilds may want to keep you, but their goals don’t match yours.
Decide what’s important to you and move on, whether by staying or leaving. Don’t let things drag out thinking they will get better. Do something about it. Talk to your leaders. If they are unresponsive, get out. They obviously aren’t worried about your needs. Only you can determine when you should leave, but always leave on as positive a note as possible. You’ll run across these people again whether in this guild or another. Don’t burn a bridge! There may be millions of accounts out there, but it’s amazing how you keep running into the same people over and over.
Conclusion
Matticus pointed out that without the healers his guild is effectively paralyzed. He is aware of their limitations with respect to gear, specs, and experience. That said it needs to be made perfectly clear to all those involved that there is a huge possibility that they will not succeed over the next couple of weeks and the whining and complaining need to be kept quiet. This is for the good of the guild. Negativity directed towards anyone will only drive people away and healers perhaps more than most. There always seems to be a shortage of healers and even more so of effective healers and we know it. We’re a commodity and we know you need us more than we need you. Terrible attitude to have by the way, healers! I’ve been guilty of it in the past too, but that’s a selfish attitude that causes groups to fall apart.
By taking these healers on you’ve essentially agreed that you know their weaknesses and are willing to work with them to improve. You seem to have two options before you. Do you come on strong risking the possibility of offending them and driving them away only to start all over with someone else in a never-ending cycle? Or do you coddle and reassure them giving them warm and fuzzies so as not to tread on any toes and potentially lose them only to continue down a frustrating and fruitless never-ending cycle of failure? Neither one seems appealing and neither one is the answer. Finding the happy medium is the struggle.
In summary, whether recruiting or being recruited remember to:
Know where you standHave fun and good luck! Continue reading 'Constructive Criticism: The Raiding Guild and The Candidate'
Know when to accept/offer advice/criticism
Know how to accept/offer advice/criticism
Know when to cut your losses
Monday, April 21, 2008
Journal Entry: Kyrilean's and Maedchen's Weekend
Finally hit exalted with Shattered Sun yesterday! I did this by completing 4-5 of the daily quests. I then bought my new healing necklace which I’m excited about. Not a huge upgrade on the heals side, but the mp5 upgrade is great!
So now I’m exalted, I feel little desire to continue these daily quests. As I’m fairly broke for a 70 in epic gear, I will do the easier ones just to keep my gold supply increasing. I probably won’t bother with the quests requiring drops as I cannot stand it when the drop rate is low. I have better things to do with my time.
I spent most of my weekend playing my priest Maedchen. It’s been a long time since I’ve played any of my alts and it was very refreshing. I’ve devoted a lot of time with Kyrilean and it’s great, but repetitive daily quests and heroic instances are starting to take their toll. So Maedchen got a little time this weekend.
Maedchen started out level 18 when I started on Friday and hit level 21 by Sunday evening. I must say that leveling a shadow priest is much easier than leveling a protection pally. Granted I had little to no idea what I was doing with specs and gear back then. I have a simple understanding now. Not much of an upgrade in knowledge, but a little is better than none.
I must say that Darkshore is perhaps one of the worst designed areas in my opinion. I completed most of the quests before deciding I was finished. I hate the design, the quests, and the running from one end to the other constantly and I was using QuestHelper! For future alts I will have to settle for being barely on speaking terms with the Night Elves.
Kyrilean did see some play time though. On Sunday, three of us 70 pallies grouped with two lower level warlocks who hadn’t run Ramparts yet. In fact, one hadn’t even been to Outland yet. They had quests so we took them to get some better gear and finish their quests. After Ramps we ran Blood Furnace too for more quests.
In recent posts I’ve complained about my attitude changing towards the game. It was extremely refreshing to play to have fun and help a few people out. Making everything about me and my next piece of gear was definitely taking its toll. Not going to say I’m not going to Kara this week as we arrange a group and hitting up the heroics for badge loot, but the focus has been redirected.
Getting to know some of the new guildies was great fun! Watching how they play and getting to know how to group is absolutely necessary for preparing to set this guild up for raiding Karazhan and other instances. I’m positive that we’re going to get there and soon.
My only concern with those I ran with is inexperience. I have absolutely no idea how to play a warlock. I haven’t even rolled an alt for one. That said I can give no advice on how to spec, play, or treat a warlock. These initial 5 man instances are crucial to learning how to interact with a group and to learn your role. The further we move into raiding, the more specialized the job becomes, and the more critical understanding your role within the group is.
The other part of the concern is running lower levels through these instances with the gear and abilities that I and others have. Some of us are so overgeared for the regular instances that we can 2-man them. It makes it difficult to learn exactly how to react in given situations when you have someone so overgeared that you will never wipe. In fact, only one warlock died once the whole night. The only others to die were their voidwalkers.
Well I suppose I shouldn’t be too concerned. There are many instances that I ran only once or not at all but have run in heroics many times. Granted not the best place to learn, but it is doable given patient people which I know our guild has.
So overall a great weekend! I had a lot of fun and look forward to helping a few of the guildies level and/or gear up in preparation for Karazhan! Continue reading 'Journal Entry: Kyrilean's and Maedchen's Weekend'
So now I’m exalted, I feel little desire to continue these daily quests. As I’m fairly broke for a 70 in epic gear, I will do the easier ones just to keep my gold supply increasing. I probably won’t bother with the quests requiring drops as I cannot stand it when the drop rate is low. I have better things to do with my time.
I spent most of my weekend playing my priest Maedchen. It’s been a long time since I’ve played any of my alts and it was very refreshing. I’ve devoted a lot of time with Kyrilean and it’s great, but repetitive daily quests and heroic instances are starting to take their toll. So Maedchen got a little time this weekend.
Maedchen started out level 18 when I started on Friday and hit level 21 by Sunday evening. I must say that leveling a shadow priest is much easier than leveling a protection pally. Granted I had little to no idea what I was doing with specs and gear back then. I have a simple understanding now. Not much of an upgrade in knowledge, but a little is better than none.
I must say that Darkshore is perhaps one of the worst designed areas in my opinion. I completed most of the quests before deciding I was finished. I hate the design, the quests, and the running from one end to the other constantly and I was using QuestHelper! For future alts I will have to settle for being barely on speaking terms with the Night Elves.
Kyrilean did see some play time though. On Sunday, three of us 70 pallies grouped with two lower level warlocks who hadn’t run Ramparts yet. In fact, one hadn’t even been to Outland yet. They had quests so we took them to get some better gear and finish their quests. After Ramps we ran Blood Furnace too for more quests.
In recent posts I’ve complained about my attitude changing towards the game. It was extremely refreshing to play to have fun and help a few people out. Making everything about me and my next piece of gear was definitely taking its toll. Not going to say I’m not going to Kara this week as we arrange a group and hitting up the heroics for badge loot, but the focus has been redirected.
Getting to know some of the new guildies was great fun! Watching how they play and getting to know how to group is absolutely necessary for preparing to set this guild up for raiding Karazhan and other instances. I’m positive that we’re going to get there and soon.
My only concern with those I ran with is inexperience. I have absolutely no idea how to play a warlock. I haven’t even rolled an alt for one. That said I can give no advice on how to spec, play, or treat a warlock. These initial 5 man instances are crucial to learning how to interact with a group and to learn your role. The further we move into raiding, the more specialized the job becomes, and the more critical understanding your role within the group is.
The other part of the concern is running lower levels through these instances with the gear and abilities that I and others have. Some of us are so overgeared for the regular instances that we can 2-man them. It makes it difficult to learn exactly how to react in given situations when you have someone so overgeared that you will never wipe. In fact, only one warlock died once the whole night. The only others to die were their voidwalkers.
Well I suppose I shouldn’t be too concerned. There are many instances that I ran only once or not at all but have run in heroics many times. Granted not the best place to learn, but it is doable given patient people which I know our guild has.
So overall a great weekend! I had a lot of fun and look forward to helping a few of the guildies level and/or gear up in preparation for Karazhan! Continue reading 'Journal Entry: Kyrilean's and Maedchen's Weekend'
Thursday, April 17, 2008
Common Courtesy: Sleeping with the Dodo
Has common courtesy gone the way of the dodo? Maybe I’m just too old. Let me tell you what I mean.
If you’ve read my last couple of posts, you know that I was recently part of a Kara group that fell apart. I’m desperately trying to get into a new group to experience some of the BC endgame content before the new expansion hits and nobody wants to go anymore. AQ? Bless you!
I’ve spent the past week hitting the trade channel from time to time trying to recruit Kara ready players. It hasn’t worked at all. I have discovered that if you’re a Holy Paladin that you will get requests like crazy to join their guild. Interesting that it can be so nice to be wanted and yet annoying beyond belief all at the same time.
Since the recruiting wasn’t going so well, I decided to at least entertain the idea of joining another guild or hope to find one willing to group with us. So I watched the trade channel for recruiting macros. I asked for information such as a website, raid times, etc. Then I started hitting up Warcrafter and Be Imba! to review their gear levels and whether or not it appeared they really could do the raids they advertised.
Eventually I talked to someone that invited us to join their guild which I’m always wary to do initially. Want to try someone out before committing to joining. Don’t want to be known as a guild jumper. However, she seemed really nice and what we are looking for so I talked to her for a bit and said I’d talk to my friends about setting something up.
Skipping through some of the issues getting set up, which became apparent later, we joined up and started running through Karazhan. My first warning should have come when we showed up and I wasn’t sure who the other healer was. I later found out it was the GM I had been talking to. I could have sworn I ran a report on her and she was a tank. Maybe I was wrong, but I wasn’t sure and didn’t think about it. But maybe she was asked to respec.
It turned out that the raid leader had just joined the guild. Apparently he was there to help smaller guilds run through Karazhan and then move on to others in an attempt to train first time raiders for the end game content. That said I ran a Be Imba! report on him and he came out with Karazhan gear and a gear score of 174. Nothing indicating he had done the higher end content. Granted, I have no idea if he has an alt.
On the first pull he informed everyone to stand within melee range. Didn’t say why, just instructed everyone to stay in melee range. For ranged dps and healers this was a different concept. He offered no explanation, no one asked. At first I thought, OK we might have a “know-it-all” here, but I’ll give him a chance. Turns out he had a point.
I’ve been to Kara several times, but never really thought about the first trash pull. The groups I’ve been in have always done the classic stay out of range, etc. Some particular steeds charge when the aggro switches making it difficult for the tanks to stay on them. The closer you are the easier it is for the tank to get back. Only after it happened a few times did the Raid Leader sarcastically say “That’s why we stay in melee range.” This guy started to rub me the wrong way.
But again he was here to train these guys run Kara. This isn’t my guild. We’re here to test it out. Give it a chance and see what happens. The guy definitely did know and understand Kara and quite frankly pointed out some things that I knew but never thought about, or just didn’t know. Nothing big, nothing profound, just small things that made it go a little bit smoother.
By the time we got to Attumen and he explained the fight, we took the boss down with relative ease. The one difference for us is that it took almost twice as long as we are used to. This guild’s dps is very low compared to what we had in the past. It’s doable, but I don’t believe we’ll get too far the first few times with them. They need more gear to up that dps. We’re fine with helping out. We were there a month ago.
The Fiery Warhorse’s Reins dropped. Before rolling the RL announced that the GM, since she was the GM, would get a +10 roll to her roll for the reins. OK, I don’t know if this is typical in other guilds, but I’ve never seen this before. Just because someone is in a management position doesn’t entitle them to special benefits. Everyone is an equal. Everyone did their job to take down the boss. What entitles any particular person to be elevated above any other? Because it’s just the reins, I didn’t say anything. It also didn’t bother me that much, but I still think WTH?! Didn’t matter because my tanking friend won the roll anyway, which made me bust out laughing.
As we moved to the stairs to tackle the next boss, the Raid Leader informed us we were skipping Moroes and moving to Maiden. OK fine, I like Maiden more anyway. Still want her mace drop. Somewhere along the line he decides that he’s going to replace my fire mage friend with a shadow priest. Not sure why and never found out. He announces in voice chat “Thanks for coming, appreciate it.” and then kicks him out of the party and invites another. My friends and I are stunned! We don’t know what just happened! There was no warning, there was no request, just a blatant dismissal and let’s move on.
At once, my warrior friend announces that he can leave too if they want to bring a mage and leaves the party. I whisper the GM that I’m leaving as well that “We don’t play that way. We all succeed together or fail together. I’d be just as upset if he kicked out one of yours without asking.” The four of us promptly left Karazhan.
The GM spent the rest of the evening apologizing saying the RL was new and didn’t know how things were done. She said this isn’t typical of her guild and not allowed. She didn’t know he was going to do that. Basically she spent the evening trying to salvage whatever potential relationship we might have. We all agreed that she was sincere, but regardless if this guy knows his stuff or not, that’s no excuse for lack of common courtesy.
My friends and I play to hang out with friends, experience new content together, celebrate in each other’s victories, help each other out, etc. This guild appears to have the same attitudes towards the game as we do.
We do not allow or accept the following:
If a sign up system is set up and followed, that is different. If I can’t go because I signed up late, that’s my fault. No one dictated. If a rank system is set up that supersedes sign up times, again that is different. If I’m told that I can’t go because my gear is inadequate, that is different. Basically, if I’m being told to do something arbitrarily, I won’t do it. There must be a reason and that reason must be valid and fair.
I don’t tell you how to play your class, don’t tell me how to play mine. I’m barely an expert, if at all, at my own class. I’d look like an idiot telling you what to do. Besides, it’s rude. Offering advice has its place. It must be handled lightly and with care. Generally speaking, don’t do it. Let the person’s friend do it; whatever it takes to avoid hurting feelings. Raiders might find that statement stupid. But my response is what gave you the right to be an ass because you’re hiding behind an online avatar? Ask yourself, would you do this in person? If so, how would you handle it? Given that the average person is at least somewhat of a decent person, handle it that way.
If you set up a group for whatever reason and someone in that group isn’t cutting it, you fail together. Accept it. Kicking someone out will only lead to hurt feelings, anger, bitterness, guild drama, etc. Abandon and regroup another time. Easier said than done. Hopefully if you are one of those people, please offer to leave. It makes it easier on everyone else who doesn’t want to be rude. If you are asked to leave in a polite manner, please do so and remember that as the others gear up and move through, they'll be that much better to help you to come back.
There is no problem with asking a particular person to leave. You’ll ask them to not take it personal, but please realize that they will. If they refuse, disband and end it. You accepted their help. They got you to whatever point you ended up at. They deserve to see it to the end or none do. If they accept, replace them and move on. Common courtesy.
My question is am I unrealistic to expect these things in a raiding guild? Are there no raiding guilds out there like this? If there are any in Arathor, please let me know because I’m looking for one.
Have I just gotten old? Or is common courtesy sleeping with the dodo? Continue reading 'Common Courtesy: Sleeping with the Dodo'
If you’ve read my last couple of posts, you know that I was recently part of a Kara group that fell apart. I’m desperately trying to get into a new group to experience some of the BC endgame content before the new expansion hits and nobody wants to go anymore. AQ? Bless you!
I’ve spent the past week hitting the trade channel from time to time trying to recruit Kara ready players. It hasn’t worked at all. I have discovered that if you’re a Holy Paladin that you will get requests like crazy to join their guild. Interesting that it can be so nice to be wanted and yet annoying beyond belief all at the same time.
Since the recruiting wasn’t going so well, I decided to at least entertain the idea of joining another guild or hope to find one willing to group with us. So I watched the trade channel for recruiting macros. I asked for information such as a website, raid times, etc. Then I started hitting up Warcrafter and Be Imba! to review their gear levels and whether or not it appeared they really could do the raids they advertised.
Eventually I talked to someone that invited us to join their guild which I’m always wary to do initially. Want to try someone out before committing to joining. Don’t want to be known as a guild jumper. However, she seemed really nice and what we are looking for so I talked to her for a bit and said I’d talk to my friends about setting something up.
Skipping through some of the issues getting set up, which became apparent later, we joined up and started running through Karazhan. My first warning should have come when we showed up and I wasn’t sure who the other healer was. I later found out it was the GM I had been talking to. I could have sworn I ran a report on her and she was a tank. Maybe I was wrong, but I wasn’t sure and didn’t think about it. But maybe she was asked to respec.
It turned out that the raid leader had just joined the guild. Apparently he was there to help smaller guilds run through Karazhan and then move on to others in an attempt to train first time raiders for the end game content. That said I ran a Be Imba! report on him and he came out with Karazhan gear and a gear score of 174. Nothing indicating he had done the higher end content. Granted, I have no idea if he has an alt.
On the first pull he informed everyone to stand within melee range. Didn’t say why, just instructed everyone to stay in melee range. For ranged dps and healers this was a different concept. He offered no explanation, no one asked. At first I thought, OK we might have a “know-it-all” here, but I’ll give him a chance. Turns out he had a point.
I’ve been to Kara several times, but never really thought about the first trash pull. The groups I’ve been in have always done the classic stay out of range, etc. Some particular steeds charge when the aggro switches making it difficult for the tanks to stay on them. The closer you are the easier it is for the tank to get back. Only after it happened a few times did the Raid Leader sarcastically say “That’s why we stay in melee range.” This guy started to rub me the wrong way.
But again he was here to train these guys run Kara. This isn’t my guild. We’re here to test it out. Give it a chance and see what happens. The guy definitely did know and understand Kara and quite frankly pointed out some things that I knew but never thought about, or just didn’t know. Nothing big, nothing profound, just small things that made it go a little bit smoother.
By the time we got to Attumen and he explained the fight, we took the boss down with relative ease. The one difference for us is that it took almost twice as long as we are used to. This guild’s dps is very low compared to what we had in the past. It’s doable, but I don’t believe we’ll get too far the first few times with them. They need more gear to up that dps. We’re fine with helping out. We were there a month ago.
The Fiery Warhorse’s Reins dropped. Before rolling the RL announced that the GM, since she was the GM, would get a +10 roll to her roll for the reins. OK, I don’t know if this is typical in other guilds, but I’ve never seen this before. Just because someone is in a management position doesn’t entitle them to special benefits. Everyone is an equal. Everyone did their job to take down the boss. What entitles any particular person to be elevated above any other? Because it’s just the reins, I didn’t say anything. It also didn’t bother me that much, but I still think WTH?! Didn’t matter because my tanking friend won the roll anyway, which made me bust out laughing.
As we moved to the stairs to tackle the next boss, the Raid Leader informed us we were skipping Moroes and moving to Maiden. OK fine, I like Maiden more anyway. Still want her mace drop. Somewhere along the line he decides that he’s going to replace my fire mage friend with a shadow priest. Not sure why and never found out. He announces in voice chat “Thanks for coming, appreciate it.” and then kicks him out of the party and invites another. My friends and I are stunned! We don’t know what just happened! There was no warning, there was no request, just a blatant dismissal and let’s move on.
At once, my warrior friend announces that he can leave too if they want to bring a mage and leaves the party. I whisper the GM that I’m leaving as well that “We don’t play that way. We all succeed together or fail together. I’d be just as upset if he kicked out one of yours without asking.” The four of us promptly left Karazhan.
The GM spent the rest of the evening apologizing saying the RL was new and didn’t know how things were done. She said this isn’t typical of her guild and not allowed. She didn’t know he was going to do that. Basically she spent the evening trying to salvage whatever potential relationship we might have. We all agreed that she was sincere, but regardless if this guy knows his stuff or not, that’s no excuse for lack of common courtesy.
My friends and I play to hang out with friends, experience new content together, celebrate in each other’s victories, help each other out, etc. This guild appears to have the same attitudes towards the game as we do.
We do not allow or accept the following:
Now I know exactly what raiders might say to the first two. Please re-read carefully what I wrote.Being told what, where, when, how, and with whom we can raid, quest, or group with.
Telling others what, where, when, how, and with whom they can raid, quest or group with.
Being told or telling others how to spec or play their classes.
Removing or replacing someone from a raid or group because we need to, want to, or just have the power to do so.
Everyone’s an equal, whether you’re in Tier 6 gear or the lowly level 5 in the guild.
Being rude or inconsiderate in any way, shape, or fashion. Just follow the Golden Rule.
If a sign up system is set up and followed, that is different. If I can’t go because I signed up late, that’s my fault. No one dictated. If a rank system is set up that supersedes sign up times, again that is different. If I’m told that I can’t go because my gear is inadequate, that is different. Basically, if I’m being told to do something arbitrarily, I won’t do it. There must be a reason and that reason must be valid and fair.
I don’t tell you how to play your class, don’t tell me how to play mine. I’m barely an expert, if at all, at my own class. I’d look like an idiot telling you what to do. Besides, it’s rude. Offering advice has its place. It must be handled lightly and with care. Generally speaking, don’t do it. Let the person’s friend do it; whatever it takes to avoid hurting feelings. Raiders might find that statement stupid. But my response is what gave you the right to be an ass because you’re hiding behind an online avatar? Ask yourself, would you do this in person? If so, how would you handle it? Given that the average person is at least somewhat of a decent person, handle it that way.
If you set up a group for whatever reason and someone in that group isn’t cutting it, you fail together. Accept it. Kicking someone out will only lead to hurt feelings, anger, bitterness, guild drama, etc. Abandon and regroup another time. Easier said than done. Hopefully if you are one of those people, please offer to leave. It makes it easier on everyone else who doesn’t want to be rude. If you are asked to leave in a polite manner, please do so and remember that as the others gear up and move through, they'll be that much better to help you to come back.
There is no problem with asking a particular person to leave. You’ll ask them to not take it personal, but please realize that they will. If they refuse, disband and end it. You accepted their help. They got you to whatever point you ended up at. They deserve to see it to the end or none do. If they accept, replace them and move on. Common courtesy.
My question is am I unrealistic to expect these things in a raiding guild? Are there no raiding guilds out there like this? If there are any in Arathor, please let me know because I’m looking for one.
Have I just gotten old? Or is common courtesy sleeping with the dodo? Continue reading 'Common Courtesy: Sleeping with the Dodo'
Wednesday, March 5, 2008
Constructive criticism and helping others
I posted this on Blog Azeroth.
I may be getting myself into trouble here if any of my fellow guildmates frequent Blog Azeroth, but I feel this is important enough that it needs to be said. Without going into great detail, but based on observations a few of us newer to the guild have a theory that the elites in the guild carried several of the newer players. As such, we're afraid that they haven't learned certain aspects of their toons and don't understand how certain aspects of the game change in the endgame.
Please let me interject by saying that I am by no means an expert in any class. I have a level 70 holy paladin and 4 alts; none of whom are higher than level 27. I do not know how to play any other class other than a paladin with any degree of expertise. I do not tell others how to play their class, besides being rude, it would only show my ignorance. I am a firm believer in playing your class anyway you like. That said I do believe certain advice can be and should be given. Let me elaborate.
Last night, five of us went into Heroic Slave Pens. This is one of the easier heroics as I understand; only having attempted three in all. I’m still fairly new to heroics. I am currently geared, albeit with PvP armor, for heroics. One other in our group is geared for it as well, one is extremely close, and the other two are nowhere near ready gear wise. Although we went into this instance knowing this, we felt that perhaps we could at least take out the first boss with a little luck, hopefully get a drop or two that would help upgrade them, and get a badge out of it. It didn’t happen.
It came to my attention that certain things about my healing abilities were brought into question by the two that are not geared for heroics. I shouldn’t have known about this, but it was passed along to me by someone I trust (the person on the receiving end of the whispers). The only thing that gets me upset in WoW is being blamed for things that are arguably not my fault. It was brought up that I was allowing the tank to drop below 50% health. Yes, this was happening as I was trying to heal others; myself included. The two low-geared toons were DPS and CC, which neither was doing effectively. This was fine because we knew this would be a problem going into a heroic. Nobody expected different, except maybe them. It resulted in my aggroing several mobs frequently which lead to my demise and ultimately a wipe.
In all fairness, I wasn’t the only target of criticism. My friend receiving the whispers was also receiving advice from the same person on how to play her toon. This is something that we’ve observed in this guild; there are a lot of people who “know-it-all”. This is very important to my question as how do you handle giving someone advice who “knows-it-all”?
Even right now as I write this, I am upset about the apparent finger pointing and lack of self-criticism. Ironically, this was set up because I talked to the GM a couple of days earlier and expressed my frustration that the guild wasn’t attempting to try new things. Well, we tried and we didn’t fare so well. I would have had an enormous amount of fun regardless of the hefty repair bill, but once I found out about the comments behind my back, all fun went out the window. I know I would have had fun because three of us had tried it the night before with two others and got the first badge after wiping so many times I lost count. We finally quit because it was getting late and our warlock started to pull hubby aggro.
Anyway, I knew it wouldn’t be easy and I knew there was a chance we’d fail, but I want so much to help those not geared get a little better geared. Not only does it help them, but it helps the guild and ultimately me as well.
Near the end when we were calling it quits, some comments were made about grouping together and spending time in easier instances to “learn how to work as a group together” and “learn how each other plays”. My other friend whispered me and laughed. He was also frustrated and upset at some of the comments and the apparent lack of knowledge on how to play their toons and, please take this with a grain of salt, sometimes appeared to not being doing much of anything at all. I'm sure that last part is not true or they were trying to not aggro, I don't know. It was the heat of battle and hard to watch everything when concentrating on your own tasks. We also understand that we’re not experts in the other classes, but we do understand the Tank-DPS-Healer trinity.
We had a Balance Druid healing because I wasn’t able to keep up. Bless her heart I love her for it, but she’s Balance and needs to play that way. In the few groups that I’ve been with her, she spends most of her time healing. Checking out her gear she is set up for healing, but is 47/0/14 in Balance. She claims she’s Balance/Resto whenever asked and never just Balance. I’ve only ever seen her change to Moonkin form once. Again, maybe she’s just under the impression that I can’t do my job and is complimenting mine, but ultimately hurts the party by not using her DPS capabilities. I especially don’t know how to give her advice on her gear/talents because I really don’t want to offend her. She’s an absolute sweetheart! (Lil, if you’re reading this, please take it in the spirit it’s meant.)
It wasn’t long ago that I had no clue as how to play a paladin effectively. When I was around level 30, I found someone that gave me advice because I asked for it and it changed the way I played so much that I enjoyed it. Solo-leveling a Protection Paladin was no fun because of my lack of knowledge. Later on, when I switched to Holy I was asked if I was a Retribution Paladin. Apparently I had primarily Retribution gear was spec’d Protection and had only recently switched to Holy without time to re-gear. I didn’t understand the differences between the three types of gear for paladins and the amazing affect that having the correct gear can have on your performance.
So ultimately, here are the questions. How do you give advice to someone you don’t want to offend? How do you give advice to someone that believes they know-it-all? Continue reading 'Constructive criticism and helping others'
First, let me apologize if this topic is already somewhere here. I scanned through the list and nothing jumped out at me. As I wrote this, I began to ramble about how this question came up. I decided it was too long to post here and have posted my rambling on my blog. In it I talk about the more specific issues leading up to my question. I would appreciate it if you took the time to read it to further understand what I'm trying to get from the question, but it does ramble some and isn't necessary.I am currently in a new small guild that appears to be...I'll use the word disjointed. There are only 30 some odd accounts if I remember correctly. There are a select few in the guild that are almost geared for Black Temple based on http://be.imba.hu and only four of us that are geared for Karazhan or Heroics, also based on http://be.imba.hu. There are roughly another 7 or 8 lvl 70s currently in the guild; none of whom are anywhere close to being geared for Heroics let alone Kara.
Question: How does one go about giving constructive advice to others about their gear, talents, skills, spells, class, or any other aspect of the game? How do you handle giving someone advice who “knows-it-all”?
I may be getting myself into trouble here if any of my fellow guildmates frequent Blog Azeroth, but I feel this is important enough that it needs to be said. Without going into great detail, but based on observations a few of us newer to the guild have a theory that the elites in the guild carried several of the newer players. As such, we're afraid that they haven't learned certain aspects of their toons and don't understand how certain aspects of the game change in the endgame.
Please let me interject by saying that I am by no means an expert in any class. I have a level 70 holy paladin and 4 alts; none of whom are higher than level 27. I do not know how to play any other class other than a paladin with any degree of expertise. I do not tell others how to play their class, besides being rude, it would only show my ignorance. I am a firm believer in playing your class anyway you like. That said I do believe certain advice can be and should be given. Let me elaborate.
Last night, five of us went into Heroic Slave Pens. This is one of the easier heroics as I understand; only having attempted three in all. I’m still fairly new to heroics. I am currently geared, albeit with PvP armor, for heroics. One other in our group is geared for it as well, one is extremely close, and the other two are nowhere near ready gear wise. Although we went into this instance knowing this, we felt that perhaps we could at least take out the first boss with a little luck, hopefully get a drop or two that would help upgrade them, and get a badge out of it. It didn’t happen.
It came to my attention that certain things about my healing abilities were brought into question by the two that are not geared for heroics. I shouldn’t have known about this, but it was passed along to me by someone I trust (the person on the receiving end of the whispers). The only thing that gets me upset in WoW is being blamed for things that are arguably not my fault. It was brought up that I was allowing the tank to drop below 50% health. Yes, this was happening as I was trying to heal others; myself included. The two low-geared toons were DPS and CC, which neither was doing effectively. This was fine because we knew this would be a problem going into a heroic. Nobody expected different, except maybe them. It resulted in my aggroing several mobs frequently which lead to my demise and ultimately a wipe.
In all fairness, I wasn’t the only target of criticism. My friend receiving the whispers was also receiving advice from the same person on how to play her toon. This is something that we’ve observed in this guild; there are a lot of people who “know-it-all”. This is very important to my question as how do you handle giving someone advice who “knows-it-all”?
Even right now as I write this, I am upset about the apparent finger pointing and lack of self-criticism. Ironically, this was set up because I talked to the GM a couple of days earlier and expressed my frustration that the guild wasn’t attempting to try new things. Well, we tried and we didn’t fare so well. I would have had an enormous amount of fun regardless of the hefty repair bill, but once I found out about the comments behind my back, all fun went out the window. I know I would have had fun because three of us had tried it the night before with two others and got the first badge after wiping so many times I lost count. We finally quit because it was getting late and our warlock started to pull hubby aggro.
Anyway, I knew it wouldn’t be easy and I knew there was a chance we’d fail, but I want so much to help those not geared get a little better geared. Not only does it help them, but it helps the guild and ultimately me as well.
Near the end when we were calling it quits, some comments were made about grouping together and spending time in easier instances to “learn how to work as a group together” and “learn how each other plays”. My other friend whispered me and laughed. He was also frustrated and upset at some of the comments and the apparent lack of knowledge on how to play their toons and, please take this with a grain of salt, sometimes appeared to not being doing much of anything at all. I'm sure that last part is not true or they were trying to not aggro, I don't know. It was the heat of battle and hard to watch everything when concentrating on your own tasks. We also understand that we’re not experts in the other classes, but we do understand the Tank-DPS-Healer trinity.
We had a Balance Druid healing because I wasn’t able to keep up. Bless her heart I love her for it, but she’s Balance and needs to play that way. In the few groups that I’ve been with her, she spends most of her time healing. Checking out her gear she is set up for healing, but is 47/0/14 in Balance. She claims she’s Balance/Resto whenever asked and never just Balance. I’ve only ever seen her change to Moonkin form once. Again, maybe she’s just under the impression that I can’t do my job and is complimenting mine, but ultimately hurts the party by not using her DPS capabilities. I especially don’t know how to give her advice on her gear/talents because I really don’t want to offend her. She’s an absolute sweetheart! (Lil, if you’re reading this, please take it in the spirit it’s meant.)
It wasn’t long ago that I had no clue as how to play a paladin effectively. When I was around level 30, I found someone that gave me advice because I asked for it and it changed the way I played so much that I enjoyed it. Solo-leveling a Protection Paladin was no fun because of my lack of knowledge. Later on, when I switched to Holy I was asked if I was a Retribution Paladin. Apparently I had primarily Retribution gear was spec’d Protection and had only recently switched to Holy without time to re-gear. I didn’t understand the differences between the three types of gear for paladins and the amazing affect that having the correct gear can have on your performance.
So ultimately, here are the questions. How do you give advice to someone you don’t want to offend? How do you give advice to someone that believes they know-it-all? Continue reading 'Constructive criticism and helping others'
Monday, January 14, 2008
WoW: Asking someone to leave the party
Last night four members of my guild, including myself, along with another friend, attempted to complete the quest in Black Morass to gain the key to access Karazhan. Obviously I was the healer; we had a druid tank, two warriors, and a warlock. Unfortunately, it was taking an extremely long amount of time to take down the elites. As such, we were unable to effectively control the swarm of adds that kept appearing through the portals. I believe we only made it to the 6th round before Medivh succumbed to his “mortal coil”.
Eventually, one of the warriors stepped out and allowed another DPS warrior to step in to assist. We tried again with no success, although we started to take down the elites a little faster. Running a damage meter showed that the warlock was at 2% of the total damage, only remaining from the bottom because I was at zero (something I jokingly complain about; they make me feel better by running the heal meter).
What came next I’m sure is a classic problem with guild groups throughout WoW; how do we ask someone to leave?
The first obstacle was that all of us needed to complete the quest. The warrior from our guild volunteered to leave, provided when we were done that we would help him later. That’s when the DPS warrior from our guild joined. When it still wasn’t working, the next obstacle was that the warlock was not performing effectively as a DPS like the group needed.
I had previously tried this with others from our guild that included a mage who was very good at DPS, but hadn’t completed the quest due to a time constraint. We wanted to invite him to help as he had done extremely well with the adds last time. But how to ask the warlock to leave? Finally after beating around the bush and not getting anything accomplished, I finally decided to be the bad guy; this was after several hints about replacing either the warlock or another in the party. I told the warlock to not take it personally, but that we really needed to ask the mage to come and we’d get her back in once completed.
Why are we compelled to say “don’t take this personally” when we already know that they are going to take it personally? I felt stupid saying that, but couldn’t stop myself.
Well, we got the warlock to leave and invited the mage. We ended up making it to round 12 or 13, but didn’t get past that. Our party make-up was now better, but we still didn’t get the deed done. We all decided to try again next Sunday.
After leaving the instance, we headed back to repair and figure out what to do next. We ran into the warlock in the bank and she and I began a conversation. She felt really bad. Some of the comments were that she didn’t have the DPS that she should have. She should think about re-spec’ing and do something different. None of these comments were negative; however under the given circumstances they weren’t well received.
I’ll be the first to admit that I don’t know the first thing about warlocks, except that they kick my butt in BGs all the time. I can’t stand all the afflictions they cast on me to beat me down. I can usually survive it, but it’s the warrior and rogue standing next to them that finish me off. So I’m definitely not the guy to be asking for advice when it comes to how to play a warlock and I told her so. I also couldn’t give any advice on how to spec. I was a protection pally for the longest time and struggled with making that work. When I finally did start to get somewhat good at it, I switched to holy to fill a need. Although I like being a healer, I definitely miss being a tank. My advice; spec to how you like to play. Don’t spec to what people tell you. It will eventually destroy your own enjoyment of the game. That’s not to say don’t be afraid to try new things. If you don’t like it…switch back.
Needless to say, she was embarrassed, upset, hurt, etc. I tried really hard to make her feel better. I told her that it wasn’t her fault. Although we were able to get further, we still didn’t finish. There were other factors including inadequate gear, additional DPS problems, party make-up, and inexperience with the instance. She was still pretty hard on herself and we all felt bad. I think I may have done some damage control to at least keep her from leaving the guild. I also shared the experience I had when still fairly new with the guild. I’d only been in the guild for about a month. I grouped up with the tanking druid from our party and another tanking warrior from our guild. There were two hunters in the group and we were in one of the Coilfang instances. I don’t remember which anymore. Anyway, we were trying to get past the second boss and it was impossible. I was eventually blamed for not having the proper gear and I’ll admit that I was trying to be the healer with half protection and half retribution gear. However, I didn’t feel it was my entire fault because I had completed the same instance the night before with an entirely different group and we didn’t have one wipe. Actually, if I remember correctly we finished the instance in about an hour.
Anyway, in this particular instance, the druid spent a lot of time trying to make me feel better. We became pretty good friends about this because she felt bad for me and was a little upset with how the other two non-guildmates handled it. We still joke about our "sucky" armor to this day. Our other guildie also felt extremely bad as they were his friends. I’ll admit that I was offended and upset about being asked to leave, however I knew I’d get over it as well. It’s just a game after all and I wasn’t going to let a couple of jerks ruin it for me. This was the driving force behind me entering the BGs and going for the epic gear, but I’ll save that for another time.
So how do you handle a situation where you have to ask someone to leave? I don’t know that I know the answer to this as each situation is different, but I hope with respect and concern about how the recipient will take being asked to leave.
How do you handle being asked to leave? I hope with respect and concern about how the others feel about asking you to leave. Sure there will always be the jerks who could care less about how you feel and to them I say "Grow up!", but I believe the average person will be very uncomfortable asking you and will genuinely feel bad about the whole thing. Try to use the experience to learn where you can improve for yourself. Don't worry about what they think you need to improve and I think you'll come out with a better look on the situation.
I'm curious to hear how you feel about both sides of the story from you. Continue reading 'WoW: Asking someone to leave the party'
Eventually, one of the warriors stepped out and allowed another DPS warrior to step in to assist. We tried again with no success, although we started to take down the elites a little faster. Running a damage meter showed that the warlock was at 2% of the total damage, only remaining from the bottom because I was at zero (something I jokingly complain about; they make me feel better by running the heal meter).
What came next I’m sure is a classic problem with guild groups throughout WoW; how do we ask someone to leave?
The first obstacle was that all of us needed to complete the quest. The warrior from our guild volunteered to leave, provided when we were done that we would help him later. That’s when the DPS warrior from our guild joined. When it still wasn’t working, the next obstacle was that the warlock was not performing effectively as a DPS like the group needed.
I had previously tried this with others from our guild that included a mage who was very good at DPS, but hadn’t completed the quest due to a time constraint. We wanted to invite him to help as he had done extremely well with the adds last time. But how to ask the warlock to leave? Finally after beating around the bush and not getting anything accomplished, I finally decided to be the bad guy; this was after several hints about replacing either the warlock or another in the party. I told the warlock to not take it personally, but that we really needed to ask the mage to come and we’d get her back in once completed.
Why are we compelled to say “don’t take this personally” when we already know that they are going to take it personally? I felt stupid saying that, but couldn’t stop myself.
Well, we got the warlock to leave and invited the mage. We ended up making it to round 12 or 13, but didn’t get past that. Our party make-up was now better, but we still didn’t get the deed done. We all decided to try again next Sunday.
After leaving the instance, we headed back to repair and figure out what to do next. We ran into the warlock in the bank and she and I began a conversation. She felt really bad. Some of the comments were that she didn’t have the DPS that she should have. She should think about re-spec’ing and do something different. None of these comments were negative; however under the given circumstances they weren’t well received.
I’ll be the first to admit that I don’t know the first thing about warlocks, except that they kick my butt in BGs all the time. I can’t stand all the afflictions they cast on me to beat me down. I can usually survive it, but it’s the warrior and rogue standing next to them that finish me off. So I’m definitely not the guy to be asking for advice when it comes to how to play a warlock and I told her so. I also couldn’t give any advice on how to spec. I was a protection pally for the longest time and struggled with making that work. When I finally did start to get somewhat good at it, I switched to holy to fill a need. Although I like being a healer, I definitely miss being a tank. My advice; spec to how you like to play. Don’t spec to what people tell you. It will eventually destroy your own enjoyment of the game. That’s not to say don’t be afraid to try new things. If you don’t like it…switch back.
Needless to say, she was embarrassed, upset, hurt, etc. I tried really hard to make her feel better. I told her that it wasn’t her fault. Although we were able to get further, we still didn’t finish. There were other factors including inadequate gear, additional DPS problems, party make-up, and inexperience with the instance. She was still pretty hard on herself and we all felt bad. I think I may have done some damage control to at least keep her from leaving the guild. I also shared the experience I had when still fairly new with the guild. I’d only been in the guild for about a month. I grouped up with the tanking druid from our party and another tanking warrior from our guild. There were two hunters in the group and we were in one of the Coilfang instances. I don’t remember which anymore. Anyway, we were trying to get past the second boss and it was impossible. I was eventually blamed for not having the proper gear and I’ll admit that I was trying to be the healer with half protection and half retribution gear. However, I didn’t feel it was my entire fault because I had completed the same instance the night before with an entirely different group and we didn’t have one wipe. Actually, if I remember correctly we finished the instance in about an hour.
Anyway, in this particular instance, the druid spent a lot of time trying to make me feel better. We became pretty good friends about this because she felt bad for me and was a little upset with how the other two non-guildmates handled it. We still joke about our "sucky" armor to this day. Our other guildie also felt extremely bad as they were his friends. I’ll admit that I was offended and upset about being asked to leave, however I knew I’d get over it as well. It’s just a game after all and I wasn’t going to let a couple of jerks ruin it for me. This was the driving force behind me entering the BGs and going for the epic gear, but I’ll save that for another time.
So how do you handle a situation where you have to ask someone to leave? I don’t know that I know the answer to this as each situation is different, but I hope with respect and concern about how the recipient will take being asked to leave.
How do you handle being asked to leave? I hope with respect and concern about how the others feel about asking you to leave. Sure there will always be the jerks who could care less about how you feel and to them I say "Grow up!", but I believe the average person will be very uncomfortable asking you and will genuinely feel bad about the whole thing. Try to use the experience to learn where you can improve for yourself. Don't worry about what they think you need to improve and I think you'll come out with a better look on the situation.
I'm curious to hear how you feel about both sides of the story from you. Continue reading 'WoW: Asking someone to leave the party'
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